February 2014 Update

[Arantor]

I thought I was clear enough already, plus you can always check it yourself by trying it out.

As for the funny code, that's the result of the original 2.0.7 patch, one of the things fixed in the later patch.

[GravuTrad]

new patch updated seems not applied here so...

[NekoJonez]

About the removal of the mailing system. I have been thinking. I honestly think it shouldn't be removed. Think of these cases:

• Somebody wants to mail an inactive member.
  
• Somebody wants to send a mail to notify something.
  
  I understand that the PM's are meant for that, but removing the whole mailing thing isn't such a great solution imo. Maybe a way to hide it?

[Arantor]

Then, frankly, you weren't paying attention to what I said about removing.

Mailing an inactive member? That's what PMs are for.

Mailing to notify? You mean like a newsletter? Use the newsletter system.

Though, I'd hope people would also understand the way this is also a reduction in spam. But it's also not my problem now either.

[NekoJonez]

Thanks for saying. Sorry for the derp.

[Deprecated]

About the removal of the mailing system. I have been thinking. I honestly think it shouldn't be removed. Think of these cases:

• Somebody wants to mail an inactive member.
  
• Somebody wants to send a mail to notify something.
  
  I understand that the PM's are meant for that, but removing the whole mailing thing isn't such a great solution imo. Maybe a way to hide it?

I agree. At worst let the devs write a mod package to add the feature back. Who is better situated to call out the +'s and -'s?

[Arantor]

What do you think you are agreeing with?

The only thing that's been removed is the spam magnet of being able to send emails to users individually, one at a time, by clicking on the relevant icon under the poster information, or in the member list. You know: that thing you couldn't actually disable properly before... or the thing that tells the recipient your email address (which PMs doesn't do)

For which better alternatives exist that should be used.

I don't know why I'm defending it, it wasn't completely removed yet, but I guess the remaining devs could leave it in if they feel it's a good idea - even though it *really* isn't.

[Xarcell]

Who ever is talkin SMF is dead. I don't think it is. I think it needs a big kick in the ass is what I think it needs. All this talk about forums dying and all that is not helpin SMF's case at all. As far as I see it the more you go with it the better the chances. But hey, what do I know right. I mean I have only been here since....well, when ever, lol.

It's like havin a dog with three legs...would you put it down or stand by it and help it along and no there is no "Only for so long" crap either. if ya start something then you see it through. The good times and the bad. It' seems to me people have forgotten that for some reason. I don't know. Maybe I am just a die hard.

Several people have tried that and all failed.
Either there are no "die hard" developers, or just the conditions to contribute are so bad that is easier to say goodbye and do something else.

You can't expect people coming "later" to have the same loyalty you have for SMF.
I don't have it for example. I have respect for anyone that worked on the script, but apart from that, I go where I see I can do what I think it's necessary to do. I tried to give something to SMF, but when all the others didn't give a damn and didn't react to anything I asked, my reaction has been: "heck, if they that have a sentimental reason to keep SMF alive don't do anything, why should I waste time trying to revive the project?"

And the same way, I don't expect to see you feel what I feel for ElkArte: I am proud of it because I participated in founding it and building it. You didn't, so I don't expect you to have any particular reason to contribute anything to it if I were to say goodbye.
It's not a bad thing per se, it's just how it works. And it's fine with me. I understand it.

Now, on the pure figures:

These are the stats of sm.org from its born to January this year.

Nice post Emanuele.

Who ever is talkin SMF is dead. I don't think it is. I think it needs a big kick in the ass is what I think it needs. All this talk about forums dying and all that is not helpin SMF's case at all. As far as I see it the more you go with it the better the chances. But hey, what do I know right. I mean I have only been here since....well, when ever, lol.

It's like havin a dog with three legs...would you put it down or stand by it and help it along and no there is no "Only for so long" crap either. if ya start something then you see it through. The good times and the bad. It' seems to me people have forgotten that for some reason. I don't know. Maybe I am just a die hard.

You can't make volunteers do things they don't ant to do. You can't ignore what they are saying and tell them to "just do it". The thing about volunteer work, is that the person is not obligated to do anything. So once you corrupt the moral, the volunteer loses inspiration and/or motivation.

Like Emanuele said: "conditions to contribute are so bad that is easier to say goodbye and do something else".

I've ran a few very small volunteer projects. I also have several years of experience in being a manager or being in a leadership position. From what I've learned, volunteer or not, you have to make those you employ feel like they are part of the greater good, not make them feel like they are working for something that is dying or behind modernization. That what they are doing will make a see-able or even tangible difference. This is done by doing many things like staying constantly involved, listening and not just hearing, acquiring feedback and taking action, keeping production organized through the whole stage, setting goals, marking milestones, compromising with your team, and coaching for improvement.

[Xarcell]

One of the "dirty tricks" I've used is to "motivation towards achievement through cleanup". What I would do here, is port all issues from mantis to Github(I know some wouldn't like that). From there, I would address all the "easy issues" first. Either by moving them out and into a 2.2 section, or by addressing the issue.

The reason I would do that is because if you were interested or even involved in the project, would you be more motivated to work on a project with 300 issues, or a project with 30 issues? For example, would you like to contribute to Elgg?

You also have to look at pull requests. Any potential developer from outside the community would not want to take part in a project that some serious outstanding pull requests. Currently, SMF has some that are over a year old. Why? Also, there are PR's that are outstanding that only change one small file. These should be merged or closed, with or without explanation.

Stuff like this needs to be knocked out ASAP to keep up the appearance of a cleaner, slimmer, software with a team that is on top of it.

Is this a real solution? No, it's not. It doesn't help the current developer who has to address the more serious stuff, but it helps every where else. I was excited when I seen Arantor knock out over half of the issues, and issues that were added by him and fixed by him in the same day. I was like, "hell yeah". How many others were inspired by this?

Now there are some outstanding issues that were added, and I'm like "yuk...", and I'm less motivated to get involved in a project that isn't even close to being close to it's goal. How many others felt this way?

Knocking out the easy stuff creates the image of being "more productive". Which in truth, you are considering the time frame. Would you want to spend 1 month knocking out 1 issue, or 1 month knocking out 30 issues?

I would sic 1 developer on the serious issues and put everyone else on the small crap. Then when the small issues are out of the way, get them more involved in the serious stuff. That's what I would do to try to keep motivation going, but I also understand this doesn't really get the software hit it's goal within a time frame. However, if you get the small stuff done throughout the whole process of the goals, I think you would be surprised at quickly you will reach your goal.

You may agree wholey, partly, or flat out disagree with the concept, but that's just how I would do it.

[PhuriousGeorge]

And suddenly 2 pages disappear

Oop, nvm found em http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=518676.0

[Kindred]

The mantis stuff has been being moved into GitHub.
And the devs have been looking at pull requests. Yes, they may not have been merged... But that does not mean that they have not been looked at.

[Suki]

One of the "dirty tricks" I've used is to "motivation towards achievement through cleanup". What I would do here, is port all issues from mantis to Github(I know some wouldn't like that). From there, I would address all the "easy issues" first. Either by moving them out and into a 2.2 section, or by addressing the issue.



Knocking out the easy stuff creates the image of being "more productive". Which in truth, you are considering the time frame. Would you want to spend 1 month knocking out 1 issue, or 1 month knocking out 30 issues?

I would sic 1 developer on the serious issues and put everyone else on the small crap. Then when the small issues are out of the way, get them more involved in the serious stuff. That's what I would do to try to keep motivation going, but I also understand this doesn't really get the software hit it's goal within a time frame. However, if you get the small stuff done throughout the whole process of the goals, I think you would be surprised at quickly you will reach your goal.

You may agree wholey, partly, or flat out disagree with the concept, but that's just how I would do it.

I was trying my best not to get involved with all this ****** but your post is just plain unavoidable...

First you say you don't want to force anyone else but then you talk and treat devs like they were cattle you can just move and make them work on things "ASAP"... theres some pretty hefty incongruence right there...  if thats what you would do it then I see no difference to what we already have...

The reason I would do that is because if you were interested or even involved in the project, would you be more motivated to work on a project with 300 issues, or a project with 30 issues? For example, would you like to contribute to Elgg?


Stuff like this needs to be knocked out ASAP to keep up the appearance of a cleaner, slimmer, software with a team that is on top of it.

Why would anyone want to contribute to a project that has no issues at all?

First thing to move forward is accepting that your project isn't perfect and that it will always gonna need changes, I'm glad that SMF has so many issues posted on github after been ignored for such a long time (by the people that now are complaining that we don't do anything about them... oh the irony!!!).

Is this a real solution? No, it's not. It doesn't help the current developer who has to address the more serious stuff, but it helps every where else. I was excited when I seen Arantor knock out over half of the issues, and issues that were added by him and fixed by him in the same day. I was like, "hell yeah". How many others were inspired by this?

Now there are some outstanding issues that were added, and I'm like "yuk...", and I'm less motivated to get involved in a project that isn't even close to being close to it's goal. How many others felt this way?

So you want to enslave us 24/7 to work on SMF so you could be happy? How many others felt this way?

I've keep reading how everyone started to jump out and said random datelines like there was their decision to make such datelines... it is utterly funny.

There are way too many issues, you saying "yuk" is not going to automatically make them dissapear nor is going to make any difference. The same for all the people that have posted on this and the other topic, you saying whatever you feel about this issue isn't gonna change anything, I'm sorry but you're not that important...

You also have to look at pull requests. Any potential developer from outside the community would not want to take part in a project that some serious outstanding pull requests. Currently, SMF has some that are over a year old. Why? Also, there are PR's that are outstanding that only change one small file. These should be merged or closed, with or without explanation.

Really? is that the way you will handle it? Closing them just to keep the appearance of a "clean" project? mmm, that sounds even more counter-productive that what we have now... if you're a fan of keeping the dirt under the carpet so your neighbors don't see it thats your prerogative, I much rather prefer everyone to see my house is a mess and see my working on it but thats just my opinion  and it seems that my opinion doesn't mean ******, heck, I'm just cattle that needs to do whatever the complainers say I should do... except that you cannot even reach an agreement... all you do is yell and squawk to whoever crosses your sigh...

It is utterly funny to read everyones opinions on how 2 single and pretty much isolated persons are suppose to work but none of you actually do anything

As for contributing, you don't actually need to be here to contribute, you don't need to "deal with the rest of the team" and all that crap I've hearing, since I got back I hardly ever posted on team boards and I just visit this forum because I'm used to do it rather than be forced to be here to contribute...

The true is, you can't really just contribute "fun stuff" or "whatever I want to work on" only, a script as large as this one has too many "boring" places that needs to be addressed, coding stuff for fun is awesome but you also need to have some level of commitment towards a project, if you're serious about a project, you will eventually face boring stuff you will have to deal with, is unavoidable, you can, of course, run away from the responsibility and start a new fork... oops!


I for once, would never said bad things a bout I project I contributed, why? because I contributed to those things, for better or for worst I was part of it, help building the bad and the good stuff. I find it utterly funny when people left and start saying crap about things they themselves were a big part of. Its just plain stupid, like spitting to the sky and not moving a single inch to avoid it...


And now, if you excuse me, I will resume my work, you guys can keep squawking and ranting all you want, again, it won't make any difference. All you guys managed to do is keep us away from you, happily, I can still work and keep pushing for a release without actually having to deal with any of you

[ApplianceJunk]

Thank you Suki and everyone else that contributes to SMF.

I sincerely appreciate all the work everyone puts into SMF and try to voice that every now and then.

Thanks again,

[CountryLady]

Thank you Suki and everyone else that contributes to SMF.

I sincerely appreciate all the work everyone puts into SMF and try to voice that every now and then.

Thanks again,

DITTO~! ....w00t~!

[Xarcell]

@Suki

What would you recommend?