The future of SMF

[Orangine]

ok emanuele, we got it the first time

[emanuele]

* emanuele is not a themer and he needs info on what they want to understand what he should give them.

Otherwise is just a waste of their and my time.

It's like the last fight between me and Ant on what is the best way to handle the needs of translation of complex strings and themes: I know the needs of translators (well, more or less), but I don't know what a themer (really) wants to be able to do, so I need to understand. And to understand I need to ask questions. If the questions are obvious...well, give me an obvious answer and I'm happy (even better if you can give me a workable alternative).

[butchs]

Honestly there is nothing as complex as main_block in 2.1...
Would you really need a psd for these files? (see the attachments)

I dunno.  Your pictures do not look as bad as what imagined it was... Looks like my original theme before the main block stressed me...  We will see when I get into the css.  I am sure I am in for a big css plunge when I start updating boardhover. 

Do like the idea of the curves in css, when I saw the main block I was wondering why they did not do it in css.  I assumed it was due to time...

[Antechinus]

Honestly there is nothing as complex as main_block in 2.1...
Would you really need a psd for these files? (see the attachments)

They'll get PSD's anyway. Easy enough, so might as well.

[Thantos]

The PSDs could go in the repository since they are source material.

[.Vapor]

Great news, glad to be back with smf..!

[vivithemage]

just keep on truckin

[glennmckenna]

now smf 3.0 sound interesting
love to know if work has started on it or not but i guess that you will only start work after 2.1 is out ?

[Arantor]

SMF 3.0 was started but all the people working on it all left for various reasons. All current dev effort appears to be on 2.1 at present judging by the Github account.

[glennmckenna]

SMF 3.0 was started but all the people working on it all left for various reasons. All current dev effort appears to be on 2.1 at present judging by the Github account.

that's a petty that every one left 

[maxg]

I'd really like to see some of if not all you guys back together on this project. I'm not personally connected with you all, but aware of what some of you are capable of doing and accomplishing, when you put your minds to it!

I'm not a coder so I can't really speak for any of you , about how much time and effort must go in to the work here and there!
I know that some of you are working on your own stuff and allot it looks very nice and promising.

I have mentioned here as well as everywhere I go that I have tested many forums Commercial and Open source, complete CMS systems , Blogs and portals, and I have supported some, But for me there is nothing that comes close to the possibilities from a tester / User's view on what can be done with SMF and it's Variables ... I will not mention names , but there are many great codes visiting here and the other sites I go to and some were pioneers of this SMF system.

To make it short it would be nice after everyone takes a break from this project, that they'd all or some may possible come back with a fresh out look and points of view... You Guys all put so much into this and it such a great system, I would hate to see it even be limited to something other than the possibility of it's future!

I know it's allot of code and more complicated than I can imagine, but It's working and still the best as far as I can tell!
And even though some may not appear to appreciate what you all have and are doing, there sure are allot using it, and this site is getting allot of hits!

But that's me and the way I feel!
i love the SMF, can't help it!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>!
regards,
Maxx

[Road Rash Jr.]

I couldn't agree with you more Maxg. It would appear that many have lost the incentive and drive. Now it looks more like a Charmin commercial. All warm and comfy, but once used it has no other purpose so into the toilet it goes.

[Arantor]

It would appear that many have lost the incentive and drive.

Respectfully, I would disagree with you. It is not the incentive or drive on its own that has gone. It is all that goes with it.

There are other places where the people who know and understand what is going on have made the real situation only too clear. Some of those people have been touted as being the only people who can fix this mess, though I'm not entirely sure that's true; there are others.

[maxg]

I can only look at this from a user point of view, but seems to me, that there are still many interested in this and hooks and variations of the SMF!
Keeping in mind as always I love the SMF and the Ideas of some who have toyed and developed, various crossways in the road to how this system should be done, seems no one has lost interest. It just seems the project is getting real big and there may be many conflicting ideas on how it should be. And this type thing happens allot on the Big and The great and with people of the same rankings.

I know some have broken off and started on there on projects, and ideals, and I've seen some of them in action and the ones I've seen, all have very interesting functionality, as far as I can tell..

No I'm not gonna lose faith in the SMF...I would hate to see it go, Never found anything like it yet, and I'm experimenting as mention many times with many projects and CMS theme creations and seems none of them come close to SMF, with or with out getting way to complicated for the Normal User to operate without a webmaster or IT pro.

I love the ideas that Arantar / Nao and Bloc and some others I'm not familiar at all with, are going though, they are all thinking and debating on various topics, that seem to be way off course from each others thoughts...However to me they all seems so close. Like making the system user friendly, possibly lighter in weight. looks, less bloated and yet Up to the latest Browser engine friendliness. Not mention the Blog and social stuff.

I'm not gonna cut down anyone's ideas here because they are all good ones, just seems a shame that things have slowed down. It has come all this way !

I am certain there are many factors surrounding this like admin stuff and legal matters.

"In the living years"

regards,
Maxx


   

[butchs]

Good grief.  Why fight soooo much?   

This is free software.  If it actually becomes worth something, I am sure some big American corporate conglomerate will just take the code.  Kinda like Apple did to shareware or Microsoft with up-start competitors.  So enjoy what you have, while you still have it, play nice and stop the petty bickering!

[Arantor]

Because some of us actually care about SMF and don't want to see it die, yet year after year people are pushed out of the project because of fights that shouldn't even have started.

This project has been unwell for years. I'm still not sure that it's in a good place.

Ironically one of the biggest stumbling blocks is who owns the code - specifically so that it is protected against being bought up the way you suggest.

[Nao 尚]

Because some of us actually care about SMF and don't want to see it die,

+1. We may be 'competition', but in the end we're still in love with SMF. We just wanted what was best for it -- and for us it meant doing our own thing without team interference.
I think it was the right decision because look at all we managed to do in 2.5 years without said interference... While the SMF dev team had to put up with so much crap.
And I'm not even blaming anyone for that... It's just a standard issue with 'design by committee'.
I think in the end, SMF will be better off once it gets rid of any semblance of democracy. Since it's unlikely to happen, I guess the only way for SMF to advance is to wait for a fork made under a 'dictatorship' policy, and reintegrate it fully into SMF -- me sees ElkArte as the very likely candidate for this, given that it's been advancing very quickly since it started (precisely because of the reduced team input), and it's committed to making SMF more modern. I'm even wondering if ElkArte isn't, by definition, destined to be SMF 3.0, and was never thought of as a proper fork... Rather, simply a better, safer, *simpler* environment for the 2011-2012 SMF dev team to work under.

Ah, sorry, I'm just typing my thoughts as they come up... I probably should shut up 

This project has been unwell for years. I'm still not sure that it's in a good place.

We've seen many forks die (I think it's pretty safe to say that unfortunately, EosAlpha isn't going anywhere, due to lack of traction), yet SMF is still (barely) alive. I've also seen many interesting forum and non-forum projects die in the 3-4 years since I've been very much into open source.
So... Basically, I'm of the opinion that SMF will outlive most forum systems, it just isn't going to be very lively for the foreseeable future. And I guess it's okay. Plus, it gives Elk and Wedge a chance to steal some momentum from time to time... 

Ironically one of the biggest stumbling blocks is who owns the code - specifically so that it is protected against being bought up the way you suggest.

My opinion is that this will eventually be resolved, considering that Angelina pretty much agreed that the Elk team was mostly right about copyright ownership.
I don't really care about that myself, though... It's simpler when there are only two 'registered' developers, I guess!

[kat]

If it was possible, I know of a surprisingly large number of people who wish they could spin time back and stop certain events from happening, so the various schisms didn't occur.

If I, personally, could get both Arantor and Nao 尚 back on the ol' team, it'd happen tomorrow.

Sadly, I think I have more chance of crapping on the moon.

[Arantor]

Given the way certain members of the team are reacting to what I'm saying, it isn't ever going to happen.

In the last hour or so, I have been accused of what amounts to starting and spreading malicious rumours about SMF and lying about it in an attempt to promote another product. By a team member, no less.

So I'm going to say exactly what I have said to this person in private: tell me where I'm 'lying'. Tell me what it is I'm supposed to be lying about. Bring it out in to the public. Make your claim, let me defend myself and what I have to say - not that I'm going to have any trouble defending myself.

Maybe instead of this cloak and dagger crap, and walking around pretending nothing's wrong, the problems that are going on might actually get *fixed* instead of pretending everything's wonderful when anyone who spends a few minutes observing what has transpired will see it clearly isn't, given the complete change over of SMF team even since the RCs and the way the dev teams of successive generations have all gone elsewhere.

I remember how in 2010 when all this really blew up, the community were promised more openness. More transparency. The team were also promised this - but events in recent weeks have made it clear that even that isn't the case.

/throws gauntlet

[Kindred]

This doesn't really belong here...   but what events of recent weeks?   And what transparency (or lack there of)?

I don't know what you've been accused of lying about... but if it was the comment that Nao made above, about Elkarte folks and the statement from the lawyers regarding copyright, I will state that, whoever claimed on Elkarte that "they were right all along" was hallucinating and has it completely turned around.